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I'm not saying run out and buy these motors... it was posted you can't buy new motors for Stock classes... I just listed all the new and competitive motors you can buy right now with a phone call. They are all legal in Ontairo.

APBA has two each of several of these different motors sitting and waiting for any racer to call up and buy them... When they sell one, they order another one so they are always ready to be delivered. Any driver in the 160 to 210 lbs area, I would recommend a new Yamato 302. Anyone lighter I would recommend the used OMC route. Anyone heavier or wanting to play with the boat outside of racing, I would recommend one of the Tohatus motor classes.

Green...
There are currently 7 racing classes that TORC ran this year that can use a brand new GREEN motors, for ages 16 and up, for speeds from 50 mph to 100 mph. Some have seats, some don't, pick your pleasure. Promote the heck out of them all you want. No need to add new classes of the, dream up new classes for them or create new motors for them in my opinion. Espeically when you can buy brand new motors for every class we run. There is a junior class for 15hp green motors too... it did not race at TORC races (only 1 in Ontario currently), but was demo'd at Gravenhurst.

Merc foot... I can only speak from experience... we needed one about a year ago, had it in no time, it's on my fathers engine. We bought a Sidewinder a couple years ago. Zero delivery issue. It's been a flawless motor, outside the few tweaks and updated parts being sent to us to keep it competitive and not out run the other motors in the class (ie slow it down). I know sidewinder motors has had a delivery issue at times for engines... this is usually because APBA is changing something on the motor and sidewinder does not want to deliver something until it is sorted. Yes their communication of this could be better.

You can easily convert a used OMC 15 too... same foot. And great engine for sure. Conversion parts are available from Sidewinder, BTM (Fralick Boats is local dealer), Gary Pond and John Myers... Everything costs about $1400 and is brand new.

ANYONE wanting to get stuff... just ask me or someone else who has been in the sport for a long time and they will get you the contact info. It's a small sport. Always will be. These companies cannot afford to advertise in magazines and such and are side businesses for everyone. They do it for the love of the sport.

Anyway, this is way off track now and nothing to do with T850, I'm done for now.

Have fun at Redwood this weekend for those going... weather looks great. I'll be at Turkey Point beach ThunderCating with several others.

I believe you just started a discussion buddy! This truely has NOTHING to do with Yamaha's PROVEN reliability (and nothing to do with T850 either)...Merc has the Opti figured out and has been working VERY well for a decade. There aren't hundreds of thousand etec's in exsistance...there just aren't. I'm front line on this stuff...not just the brand new prepped for press stuff but the stuff that has been on a barge for a year and has had 3 powerheads and 2 lowers kinda of stuff.

Todd the issue with the BRP (I've been told by 2 good dealers up here) is that in order to get a 3 star rating they have to be EXTREMELY lean on oil...so it's not an oil issue it an oiling issue. The dealers update to solve powerhead failures is to turn up the oil...turning the motor into a 2 star motor and on par with an OPTI or HPDI. Tohatsu has the DI thing figured out on the little motors and will be successful if they can get a dealer network to support them...

I was directing the engine management at all the manufactures in theory if the computer is working they should not have failure, engine temp, fuel mixture, oxygen density yada yada is constantly monitored so the question is (which you eluded to on BRP) is how the hell can they go boom lol.

Fact: Mercury's technology is orbital injection a licensed DI tech from a patent they dont own.
Fact: BRP bought Johnson/Evinrude essentially ONLY for the FICHT patent which evolved into etec
Fact: there are hundreds of thousands of examples of this techology running in the 2 stroke world of sleds and boats, they dont have any serious issues with 98% of their product since 2009 model yr, failure ratio is under 3%, people just like to whine about OMC and BRP its always been this way.
Fact: tohatsu doesnt own their DI technology, its colaborative and a great way to go about business.

Fact: This website is called High Performance Boating, not "I drive my grandma's 1990 honda civic because its good on gas and reliable" if I wanted to drive a sled for 20,000kms or use an outboard on a barge as a work motor I'd buy a yamaha. They are a motor company #1, they are the most reliable, and thats awsome... But they just dont compete in the performance market to their potential... Theres a reason for that, its called marketing to the masses not to the 1%ers and japan just doesnt want us to have fun! Trust me, I've had dinner with them, no fun for us

I totally agree with this route and think it is a great focus. I know we have classes for new "green" motors, but we havent tapped this potential and we haven't applied it to hydros outside of one class I know of. The day will come it will be manditory, I guarantee this. I want to see this sport new, fresh, fun, affordable, and accessible by all. I want to see products on the water that can be understood by spectators, IE. i want to see the motors that consumers would buy... On the race course. It'll happen, it always does! I do like the D toohotsues

Who owns what technology is not a factor in this. Sales keep you in business and the market has shifted to 4 stroke outboards. That IS a fact. 2 strokes are also being legislated out of existence....it sucks but it's true. You keep taking this back to a Yamaha vs the world arguement but that's NOT my point in this. My point was that small light 2strokes are being pushed out of the market. Tohatsu is still there but for SO you are now dependant on boutique shops that will build a few engines per year....not really an issue but it will make racing more expensive. For T class our situation for new product is even worse but luckily there are still piles of good used motors for us to run.

The barge comments where to illustrate a point...but if you're interested in high performance Etec isn't in that game either. Buy a 260...fast as hell and no worries about being reliable. There isn't a single 100mpn etec on this site

As far as having dinner with guys from Yamaha?? Come on...I had dinner with the outboard product manager (one of a handfull of north Americans to see inside the R&D rooms in Japan) every night for 13 years lol...I know a couple of the sled guys too

Sure sure this isn't Yamaha VS the world... 2 strokes are not dying, or dead, the technology will be around for years to come. I state facts, and I'm not the one spreading rumors about oil issues and california emmissions, all of the DI engines still meet future epa, no change in that. BRP is increasing their market share, and FACT in the sled game yamaha's 4 stroke market share is dwindling big time, they made the effort and have awesome motors but are losing because they can't provide a competitive product, they don't have the cool factor which is still a light high hp two stroke. You will see this continue in outboards as well in North America, people want whats cool, not whats best for them.

Its too bad that our product managers don't have any sway with Yamaha Japan, they could be making some badass two strokes to compete, but they aren't. Our guys do an awesome job pumping their product here which is part of the strength of their brand. Its hard to step back and take a look at it, but as cool as four strokes are.... they are not eliminating 2 strokes from the market place, nor will they in the foreseeable future. 2 strokes are fighting back!!!

Just to update the info in this thread... I got a hold of Ron Selewach of Racing Outboards/Sidewinder... they have good supply of the Merc 15 foot and OMC 15 foot on the shelf, complete, shipped upon payment. And as I said, we've had no issue getting parts from them, unless there was an APBA change being worked on that they were waiting to be resolved.

I know DOC will find this interesting.
Here is a picture of the first 90 hp Yamaha running in T850. It does not look too bad.
The best finish so far is a second place. The driver does not get any points. They are looking at motor options.

https://5e2662dd-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.goo ... edirects=0

Those are interesting looking boats! Never mind the yamahas
Are they the same length as ours? or are they just built different because of long-shafts and no trim?