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Erik your one of a kind...everything you represent is why I race...friends helping friends...now just find some friends to help you with your pants

Erik (Steel Balls)
What do you mean "Cobbled Together"?

I too don't want too many rules in the T class B-U-T if we don't have some definition, then we are in a full open mod class. There has to be some basic rules.
I thought this class was to attract lake racers with stock-ish boats that ran pump gas. At the point were we have enough boats, then we were to segregate the boats into competitive groups.
I think we have reached this point and next year we should , on paper, separate Mod boats from stock-ish boats. Race together but score separately. What are you afraid of?
Soon most drivers will learn to do better starts, and the boat itself will become far more significant.
I want to get going on my new boat. If we are running no rules, no inspections, then where do I stop? I was hoping to build on a reasonable budget, but this path will lead to more and more expensive engines and boats. Race by cheque book.
In the Stock Outboard classes, you will notice the "Stock" classes have thrived, the "Mod" classes barely survive. Looking ahead I can't see any way around some basic rules.
I would propose;
- 2 classes, Stock and Mod, but stock can run in mod!
-Stock gets an inspection after last race; Top 4 boats.
-Inspection will only check; -Head cc for pump gas- Port openings- Tuner length- water pickups in original location. It will only cost you 1 head gasket, ~ $20.00

This is not T-850, so lets call it what it is; T-1000 Mod, and not pretend we are something else.
These are preliminary thoughts, not carved in stone.

Regards #56

I could be wrong.. this is my opinion only!
I have been thinking about all the piston problems several racers have had this year with the 56 OMC. I ran 4 different heads on Dave 411 boat over the last 4 years and never a any problems. I never changed the timing only the jetting.
I did this to get a measurement on how different compressions affected the performance of the SST 60 power head. I got a difference of 11 mph from the stock 180 lb.SST 60 head down to the 120 lb. fishing moter head.
I think the problem several racers are heaving this year is the decompression hole in the fishing motor. Racers say they get the same reading with all heads and some are actual running a head smaller than a SST 60 to get close to the 160 lb. I don't think your getting a good read because of the decompression hole. Cranking the motor with the starter is too slow and the pressure has time to escape. When the motor is running I don;t think that hole hurts it at all. So if you ran a SST 60 head on an unsurfaced block you will get 160 eventhough it reads only 125 to 130 when cranking it. On a surface block it is over 165. If your running a smaller than SST 60 head on that motor and it reads 140 ish when cranking then I bet your in the 190 range. That would explain the need for higher octane fuel and the damage your seeing. The cast pistons compress under that pressure and you get a lower reading after the motor has a few hours.
So what advantage does 190 get? NONE! Compression gets you off the dock in a Lemans start. This high compression will actually slow you down because the motor fights itself at high RPM. The motor does not spool up as easy.

The OMC blocks
There are 3 different porting combinations
The SST 60 has higher ports and no decompression hole
The fishing motor has 2 different styles
first the production 86-87 and the later 90s are the same porting execept the later models have the decompression hole.
the 2000 series is a non bridge port motor

I suggest you run a head a few CCs larger than the SST 60 on your surfaced fishing motor block. Forget the cold cranking compression number. That motor will be 150 to 160 and run perfect on premium 91 Shell pump gas 32 to 1 mix.. Run a 66 to 68 main jet. That combination on Dave's boat ran 67 to 68 mph at Dunnville in 2011.

Just to be clear on my motor problems.

I have two motors an 86 block and a 92 block for a back up.

I ran the back up 92 block at waterford and gravenhurst with the same head that I run on the 86 block on pump gas.

I ran into problems with my 86 block when I ran the newer style three jet carbs on it and proceeded to lean the motor out racing around the lake with Rick just before waterford. This was not a detonation problem it was a lean problem I melted the piston right at the exhaust port.

I got the 86 motor back together and took it too the lake for the Erinsville race, I ran that motor on the lake testing props, set up heights, my son drove the boat everyday for a week. the middle cylinder went away again down to 120lbs, (later determined the cylinder was out of round due to overheating the first go round...when we fixed it we simply honed it and put in a new piston, visually everything looked good and with busy schedules this is all we did, in the end it should have be bored and this is what is being done now), this was not a detonation problem. I believe I have a block cooling problem thou based on the weird jetting I have. All this was running was on pump gas. Even with 120lbs in the one cylinder we ran that motor in the race and the motor would still turn over 6700 and over 67mph, without taking the motor apart I thought I had a lean issue even though the pistion burn looked ok, I ran some really fat jets and ran some race fuel for the race hoping the motor would stay together and not have it shit the bed and get run over.

Also just to be clear I have beat the shit out of the 92 block with the same head that I run on the 86, after the race at Erinsville Craig Fraser and I put the 92 block back on my boat and I ran it for another two weeks at the cottage on pump gas, my son, my brothers, my daughter all ran the boat for two weeks. I will pull the head tonight and post a pic so you can see the burn on the piston, no sign of detonation issues.

Dave( max), Eryk (Zonka), gig, Erik (this guy just loves to blow things up) all have the same head as Bryan cut them all. Dave and Zonka beat the hell out of those motors and haven't had an issue all on pump gas. We all sat patiently on my dock at Erinsville watching Zonka trying to break the 70mph barrier just waiting to here a boom, the kid was doing kilo run after kilo run and no boom. I have no issue with the cc or pocket depth of the head that I'm running, it gives me the 160lb compression and I'm very happy with it, if someone has a different opinion then run a different head.

Why have some us ran some race gas...simple it provides an additional margin of safety...it burns cooler and yes it does help with detonation due to higer octane.The race gas combination was tested at the race site by Matt and was legal fuel, and just to be clear not all race gas will pass the test depending on additives and oxgenators etc, some of the octane boosters that some might be putting in their fuel may not meet the test. If you are unsure get it tested before you win the race, then you know what you got. C12 race gas fuel does not produce more power some will say it produces less...do a little research and you will see. I say you leave the fuel requirement at legal gas per the current rules and if any testing of fuel is requied Matt (or who ever is the tech inspector) tests it. The choice of fuel is up to the racer so long as it is legal, this is no different then someone choosing between running 87 or 91. Fuel testing is alot easier then head cc testing.

Just to confirm what Don has said the earlier 86 etc. perform better over the later 90 blocks although my 90's block is not fresh.

So other then me and "Erik the Great" I don't think anybody else has played with the 90 blocks so I'm not sure where the info is coming from. The decompression feature of the 90"s block will give a false compression reading, no different then some of the v6 mercury motors on simple cranking so get your head cut by someone with some knowledge not just some local machine shop.

I have never touched the timing on my motors, that being said I have never checked them either (I know! lol). If you want to play with timing make sure you understand the potential for detonation issues. My understanding and everything I have read says the 56's DO NOT react well to have the timing bumped.

Jezz here I thought that I would never write something as long as Luksep.

Oh and just a plug on Gig's head cutting ability, you only need to look at the carbon fiber boats in the drags to know how good he is, these guys all have used Gig's head on there motors at some point, the Jasper race is full of Giegertec heads.

Cheers,

Paul, one question
You answered it.
The decompression feature of the 90"s block will give a false compression reading
Thanks

Now...say...if we went by the letter of the law in the class and knowing that we have the SST60 specs wouldn't we expect all of the 56's to just be built to SST60 specs? Even the Yamaha CES specs are VERY loose. Do we have Stinger specs? Who is doing the measuring?

Or if you're stuck on semantics Dave we could call it Improved Stock 850 lol. We're not NEAR a mod class with these motors...

As noted above it does give a false (low) compression reading, the decompression feature is exactly what it is, it allows a small about of compression to escape into the exhaust port on start up allowing for easier cranking this is a feature on some of the omc two cylinder blocks as well as some of the mercury motors (small and large), in theory as the engine turns higher rpm's the feature does not come into play. On the top end performance it should not make any difference, bottom end yes but we are not doing Lemans starts (unless you hook! lol), it is hard to say where the impact of the feature drops off. All I know is the 92 block does not have the bottom end like the 86 block (seat of the pants testing here folks), my 92 block is not fresh and has the original pistons in it, so I'm not really comparing apples here, we only swapped out the crank as it was only going to be a back up block but who's a thunk I'd actually put more hrs on it then the 86 block.

I'm just an accountant so take my words with a grain of salt, anything I've accumulated has been from talking and asking alot of questions from people that are alot smarter then I at this game. There are alot of guys that are more then willing to help out if you simply ask and listen. There is tons of knowledge out there, one simply has to listen and be open minded, there are many ways to do things and challenging on the theory is great but do it in a constructive way and you will learn a hell of alot more then just trashing someone's thinking.

You keep going with these long winded replies LC and you're gonna need a mod keyboard

Just trying to keep up with ole big balls! Lol

QUOTE: We all sat patiently on my dock at Erinsville watching Zonka trying to break the 70mph barrier

Did he break the Barrier? I only heard of one speed this year. 69.5 mph. That was not a 56'r! That breaks Ryley's mark of 69.2 mph. with a production [sand] 56'r 2010. I think Todd is up there was well and he has great acceleration to boot. That is a great set up. The Gun maybe sandbagging a little because he has it when he needs it. Gig maybe slower this year but only he can tell. DOC has more punch for sure with his CES head.