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I'm partially convinced that if P@ would have just shown up at Gravenhurst, there would have been no issues: 15 boats per class would have filled the field, Boomer would be begging to add more weight than required, Mike would be wearing a tiara while serving his elders drinks, my engine would never fail to start, everyone would be on the podium, and Greg wouldn't need a nap so desperately. So, I guess I blame P@...

Seriously, though, this thread started with an important point that is being overshadowed by subsequent specifics of race weights/lengths, so I'm going to reiterate it if only to express my own appreciation. The outboard drag racing that we have enjoyed for the past 3-4 years has been on the organizational backs--and through the wallets of--Jeff, Jason, Greg (and Jackie), and John. Without their efforts and [countless, tireless] contributions, this banter disappears and none of us smiles quite as widely on a post-race Monday morning. I tip my hat again to all of you, TORC's marriage (I hope Haliburton mixes camps a little more), and any other influencers I have regretfully failed to mention.

Weights could well get figured out by popular vote (I don't think it's any mystery that I welcomed adding weight for parity and have always agreed with what Jeff has strived for in creating balanced, "fair" competition), but I also absolutely support having as many boats show up as possible and hope this is possible. I don't know exactly how to reconcile these seemingly polarized camps, but believe it'll happen given the amount of keen interest.

Yep, ego is a crippling thing, to be sure. So, I'll appeal to all sporting one: If we collectively let outboard drag racing suffer or decline such that the joy on Ryan's (or the next Ryan's) face is erased, we should be ashamed. Seeing Ryan (and Kenny) bask in the thrill and accomplishment of Ryan's Saturday performance really made my weekend. Witnessing Dean launch harder than ever from a stalled and drifting boat was great. And I love the pastime, really like the people, and only ask that I get to continue to do so while those with more energy to dedicate to the outcome than me are fairly recognized. Not a big fan of entitlement, to be honest.

Haliburton promises to add several other levels of enjoyment. Can't wait, and I truly hope to see everyone there.

Okay, that's the end of the love-in...

how much weight will i add if i blueprint my bottom?

My phone has been going off all day on this thread. I've been following, but haven't had the time or the words to chime in. First off, congrats are in order for all racers and organizers, job well done all around. I was happy being more involved this year than last, if I'm not racing in the future I'm sure to be around helping out where I can. Saying that, I got to see more of what's going on, from the racer's, organizer's, and spectator's standpoints, and a lot of what has been brought up today has merit, but has maybe been misinterpreted or misunderstood. There has been a great deal of effort put towards making sure all classes have parity, and a lengthy discussion was had during weight estimations Friday night and actual weigh in Saturday as to what would be the best course of action to take for each boat individually to create that non existent level playing field. During weigh in, Ted was asked to add weight, and did. Rick was asked to add weight, and did. Mike's boat was a freak show, as expected, and a few ideas were tossed around, but it was decided his would be a catch weight situation and we'd just see what happened. Boomer made weight, Dean made weight, and Carlton showed up late, and as far as I know (I left for an hour to pick up my girls) never weighed in. The racing was very close in lake racer I thought, exactly what any spectator would come out to see. Kudos to the commentator, did a great job putting relevant info out there for the crowd. There was some confusion in formula, as to who was actually racer #3, but besides that it went well, the enthusiasm for that class is fantastic, there's no reason why there isn't more boats out there. To see Ryan Friday night, then Saturday morning nerves, putting him in the water with the shakes, then pulling him out with an ear to ear grin, you really see the excitement surrounding an event like this. It's worth moving forward and putting an effort into making it work. Referencing Brent's comment though, if there's no sanctioning bodies keeping an eye on what we're doing, there's no reason why we can't deal with boats like Mike's on the fly, and although rules are rules, rules are also made to be open to interpretation. Jeff I think you're taking a few things a little too personally (which I totally understand, you have taken on a lot of responsibility here), and are a little too quick to take offense where there may be room for open discussion. I spent 5 years running a car audio circuit, invested a ton of my time and money into trying to make it work, so I know exactly where you're coming from and how you feel here. All I can say is you're doing the best you possibly could with what we have to offer as a racing community, but without a governing body (as of yet) there is an opportunity to keep things loose enough to attract as many possible competitors as we can. Once enough attention comes our way, we may need to firm up on class rules, but until then I think the racing community is good enough to self regulate for the most part. Ted nailed it, the Ryan's out there are the ones that really make the day worth while, it would be a shame to discourage them to the point of not showing up.I know that's not your intent, but being too rigid at this point will drive people away (hence Mike's earlier post to pull out altogether).

Proof is in the pictures

I won't attempt to add comment here except to say that there was some very close racing Saturday.
Now before you get all excited, be advised that these pics are junk IMO.

In anticipation of rain, I decided to pull out an old DSLR with a new lens. Let's just say that an old slow camera with a new fast lens aren't compatible for this purpose, my bad. (Now I remember why I put that old turd away).

I didn't even want to post these but I feel it's important to document how close the racing really was.
It was my intent to get the start and a mid course shot, so those of you who thing you got blown out, look again.

This is a bulk upload of 150 pics, everything's there, warts and all.
Order goes…
Formula
Outlaw
T850
Lake Racer

Sorry T750 guys, missed your race cause I had my hands in a motor

Suggest opening link in new window
Click on pic for more and scroll left. Strange, but that's Photobucket

I am not taking anything personal in this.

I think some of you are reading into a few comments.

People talk about the rules should be loose enough to allow as many boats to enter ..... These few simple so called rules are so few it's almost no rules at all. Please check other organizations for their outboard drag rules. Our rules are so few it's a joke. There aren't grey areas and I'm not sure what rules are left open for inturpretation. We have wide open engine rules. The most open rules for boat types. . . and a minimum weight.

That minimum weight was decided on to actually allow more boats to feel competitive and drive the class entries up. We would most likely never see another type of boat like Mike's want to enter in the next many years. They're rare and that set up is almost a one off. That's why we wanted him to run.

Mike wasn't mentioned here in this post until I believe Mike himself mentioned his set up. The only weight comment made by me was the fact that a competitor decided at the dock that he felt he didn't need to weigh the same as the other boats that fit the class.

I have never said Mike shouldn't run nor did I say anyone shouldn't run. I have never mixed my words here. There's nothing personal here at all. Am I passionate about this yes. . .

To further things and maybe put things into perspective.

Ted had his weight calculated prior to Gravenhurst and brought it up with him and put the weight in his boat happily.
Rick had to add weight to fit the class and knew he would.
Boomer had to add 35 ish
Dean had to add 11 or so
Carlton was overweight at 1600 ish
Mike was 1060ish if I remember.

So in saying that , our average boat doesn't have to add much weight and if it creates the possibility of a new winner every time then we have done our job.
I know it's not fun to see the same boat win every pass of every race. . . That is a bad way to attract boats. If people think they have no chance they won't come. The flip side of that is you can't have a chance if you don't actually come out. So the minimum weight was set and all agreed upon. When Kenny, AnthonySS and Pat show up they will be right there as well.
I'm curious to know Kenny's weight and we know Pat had mentioned he will be under by a little bit and I'm sure he will add the calculated weight required.

This was all done to stop the same repetitive winner , every organization in drag racing has these thoughts and it really is for the better.

"Im not adding weight untill i am competitive..
if any racer has a problem with that the speak up...
the only person having hissy fits about trivial things is you jeff!!"

Last thing here before I enjoy my week.

These comments above are not the attitude to have not are they correct when it comes to racing or testing to race.

First off why would you want to be competitive at a wrong weight ? That in fact makes you not actually competitive.
Secondly why would you expect another racer to want to say something about you willingly not wanting to be competitive at weight ? That's a confrontational approach that we don't need nor expect. (Yes it was only 35lbs so why not have respectfully left it in ? )
And third a person that has worked very hard to try and make this work didn't have a "hissy fit" I merely mentioned at the dock that everyone was running as they should and you with the boat and power you have shouldn't be a reason to be exempt.
It's about professional courtesy and racer respect. We cannot get to the next level with comments like that.

Comments like those above is what can stop people from wanting to come out.

I'm doing the best I can here gents and I don't do anything here without always asking any and all. Maybe it's time to step aside and just watch for a while.

I think you've done a great job of making your position clear and keeping your comments concise and to the point.
Your work is one of the main reasons Drag Racing is alive and growing (probably not fast enough for you but…)

In the long term, straight shooters will always be there cause they realize racing is not just about winning, it's also about camaraderie and participation. Please don't let the "vocal minority" dictate policy.

Take a deep breath Jeff, hit the track and make some noise. I'm sure you'll be re-energized afterward.
The "silent majority" still supports you.

Jeff, you're not going everywhere. The vocal, non-vocal, placard-waving, and whispering majority demand it.

Pretty sure the only way any organization or relationship progresses is by thinking ahead--which you do very well and have always prompted us, the drivers, to do. All have a voice because of the democratic way you set things up during the winter (thanks to HPBC and their forums). That's good. Letting the minority have a disproportionate share of your attention? Not so good. It'll never be perfect, but we all want to kick ass in Haliburton, and it will not happen without you. Takes far more guts to act on your responsibility (or those of the previously mentioned influencers/leaders) than anything the rest of us knucklehead drivers do (Bring boat. Turn key. Clench.). Long live straight-shooting.

Cheerleader out.

why did you take it upon yourself to jump on me at gregs before you even saw my boat weighed and tell me im adding weight?
why did you try and tell me your going to check my compression? i can run as much squeeze as i want!!!.. im not going to reply to your bullshit jeff.. see you in haliburton try and question my boat again... your being a moron trying to make me quit its not happening my boat will weigh 1540 just to prove a point i dont NEED to be 1550 and its not going to make a difference anyway.. stop trying to make me quit.. you've already made some people never want to show up to a torc event again because of this type of attitude you give every new racer it seems that could have a chance against ted....

and for the record PAUL KRYSCOW made me take the weight out.. 100% going to listen to him over you so instead of attacking me on the internet,,,(again) try Talking to Paul about it...