It is currently October 31st, 2024, 10:32 pm

I bet there are law suits over high water in Muskoka Lakes

View active topics

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 76 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 8  Next
Author Message
 PostPosted: April 16th, 2016, 10:32 am   
Team Member

Joined: April 3rd, 2012, 10:03 am
Posts: 813
Location: Gravenhurst, Ontario
The MNR shit the bed....again. When we get heavy rain in the fall and lake levels go back up theres no reason hey cant drop the levels. If there's marginal snow accumulation then monitor the situation and let the levels creap up a bit but obviously be preparred for heavy spring rains. The storm that dumped almost 2" of rain was on the radar and forecast for this general area over a week in advance. Theres no reason the control structures couldn't have been opened to start dropping levels in advance of the rain. Its called being proactive.
Getting back to the dock / boathouse thing..... I've worked on these lakes for over 20 years and have done my share of work out on the bay as well. The boathouse and dock structures that stand the test of time in these areas are signifigantly different. The steel pontoon docks and the boathouses that can be put on them would do well on inland lakes IF you had sufficient water depth at the shore.
The issue this year wasn't so much the water level but the water level along with the wind and ice. I don't care how you build it....if there's a 6" thick ice sheet that weighs hundreds (if not thousands) of tonnes cruising along at 2 or 3 miles per hour and it's headed for your dock or boathouse, you're about to witness a big pile of carnage. I spoke to a contractor this week that had one of the barging outfits use their tug to break up an ice pan that was going to wreck a clients dock / boathouse. It worked. Saved the guy a pile of money!!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 PostPosted: April 16th, 2016, 12:10 pm   
Team Member
User avatar

Joined: April 3rd, 2012, 1:52 pm
Posts: 3140
When the water level is normal in the spring and there is not a lot of wind, the ice sinks and there is no damage. The ice was still in when the water level rose. Just as you mentioned, if your place is in the way of the ice you are not going to win. Most boathouses near us are wood crib or steel post. In some cases the ice was under the building as the water rose. It lifted everything and shifted it out of position. Others had the ice flow hit the sides or come thru the slip doors of the boathouse and the ice was inside. When the water is 2 feet over the deck, almost 0 degrees temperature, you cannot walk in and check. Hipwaiters help, but the cold is not long in getting thru. Meanwhile as you are trying to locate stuff floating, some jerk who has an island cottage drives by with a 5 foot wake .


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 PostPosted: April 17th, 2016, 10:41 pm   
Member

Joined: June 5th, 2015, 9:18 pm
Posts: 60
Ice never sinks, less dense than liquid water. Water at near 4*C is the most dense , sinks to the bottom , lake bottom is the last to freeze. Ice on on top . Still I don't see how you can build a boathouse however grandiose in such a way that you know you're going to get damage some of the years and still make such a fuss when it happens. The docks as well, water over the dock , ice pressure damage , we don't live in a fish bowl.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 PostPosted: April 18th, 2016, 6:36 am   
Team Member
User avatar

Joined: April 3rd, 2012, 1:52 pm
Posts: 3140
[quote=" . Still I don't see how you can build a boathouse however grandiose in such a way that you know you're going to get damage some of the years and still make such a fuss when it happens. The docks as well, water over the dock , ice pressure damage , we don't live in a fish bowl.[/quote]
Simple explanation...there has not been a major water level problem prior to 2012. We have been on the lake since 1984 our boathouse was built in 1960. The people next door family cottage has been there since 1889 and their original boathouse which still stands was built in the 1990's. The water control people are the problem 2013 and now 2016, that is why we are upset.
You are correct the ice does not sink to the bottom. It sinks below the surface as the warmer water goes over it as it melts.


Last edited by Hounddog on April 18th, 2016, 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 PostPosted: April 18th, 2016, 7:32 am   
Member

Joined: June 5th, 2015, 9:18 pm
Posts: 60
Where I am we still have ice in some bays . I have a dock that is still looked in with thick rotten lake ice.The warm sun is causing the it to top melt as the underside stays strong enough to run on . In the morning it's frozen again , buy mid day top soft. We have an otter that has been using its holes to bring pan fish up onto the the ice and eat them in front of us. So in the 80s' we had high snow and rain years . You didn't have any issues during these years?. Bubblers have been used for years to try and stop what ? I thought ice pressure. With the lowering of lakes. Last fall I assume levels came up with the rains. So by mid Dec. you feel the levels should have been lowered again. I suspect the lake system takes some time to drop when the gates are opened, weeks? How much water was in the down stream system , could it handle the extra or were they at capacity and will it lead to levels that are even more effected by higher spring flows which cause even larger problems ? This may have been the best that could have been done taking the whole system into consideration.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 PostPosted: April 18th, 2016, 10:22 am   
Team Member
User avatar

Joined: April 2nd, 2012, 7:35 pm
Posts: 406
Location: Barrie, On
Last time I looked at the locks and dam on our lake still consisted of beams that are manually added or removed. I guess the new generation of MNR experts are trying to adjust the levels from their smart phones. There must be records for the past 100 years indicating the water levels and when logs were added or removed to keep everything fairly consistent. Our water level this weekend was as low or lower than it was in September. Sure glad we have a floater dock :D

_________________
Triad V21 - 300xs
19' J-craft - 175 opti
18' Pontoon - 115 opti
12' tinny - 9.9 merc


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 PostPosted: April 18th, 2016, 10:54 am   
Team Member
User avatar

Joined: April 3rd, 2012, 1:52 pm
Posts: 3140
Dougw wrote:
There must be records for the past 100 years indicating the water levels and when logs were added or removed to keep everything fairly consistent. :D

This what Northbase was referring to. Muskoka Natural Resources you think could do a better job in controlling the water levels with all the modern forecasting and equipment available to them. One correction to make is the previous problem. It was spring 2013 not 2012. For me the cottage season year starts May, So it has only been 3 springs since the last problem. The majority of the docks and boathouse bases are wood cribs. Provided the wood and spikes are completely under water, the structure is solid for 10's of years. The weak and rotten part is the top of the crib which is not completely under the water all the time. Spikes rust thru and wood rots. Most deck tops on the docks are heavy, but they will float. The very high water rips the deck off the crib. It can then float out of position. break up or float away to become a hugh floating deadhead as Boomer said.
In the summer JULY of 2013 we were still finding large pieces of dock, Muskoka chairs, wood benches, containers floating into our small bay.
The Sears store sold over 200 refrigerators in 2013. Their in for another good sales year.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 PostPosted: April 18th, 2016, 11:45 am   
Member

Joined: June 5th, 2015, 9:18 pm
Posts: 60
Of coarse they have records , or they did . If you have a close eye on the system and know the dynamics of it, you would be able to judge how things are at any given time. Last fall down stream from your area , what was the system at ? Could it have held more? Great to have a fridge in the boat house if it never gets wet but it does and then to cry foul and run to the insurance with claims like lost chairs and wet appliances at lake level ? Pure stupidity , worse than a smart phone crutch .


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 PostPosted: April 18th, 2016, 6:38 pm   
Team Member

Joined: April 3rd, 2012, 10:03 am
Posts: 813
Location: Gravenhurst, Ontario
The areas downstream from both myself and hound dog had more then enough capacity to accept a steady draw down after last fall's rain accumulation. I've seen both these areas end the winter at water levels 30"-36" below normal summer levels and come back up during spring run off.
It's called proper management.
The issue is that this is not happening now due to poor management practices.
And by the way.....nobody's running to their insurance company for a fridge or a chair.....they're pissed because a pin head bureaucrat can't figure out how to pull the plug outta the bath tub befor it overflows.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 PostPosted: April 18th, 2016, 7:30 pm   
Member

Joined: June 5th, 2015, 9:18 pm
Posts: 60
It's hard to believe that the common sence and understood dynamics for this system has then left the governing body considering the number of powerhouses on the system. To me that seems unlikely.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 76 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 8  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Style originally created by Volize © 2003 • Redesigned SkyLine by MartectX © 2008 - 2010