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Gotta agree with Dok here. If we have a good boat count I think it will be hard for one boat to dominate, that stars will have to line up for that to happen.

For Jim and Mike Hooper as Dok said they are expected to be out front, they could pass me in a tin boat.

And Don I think you got Dok in the right position!

Good replies guys, that is what I was hoping for. It really doesn't make too much difference in what you run. The boats have a natural hull speed and you can over power them, under weight them and in most cases gain NOTHING! You need to be able to drive the boat and have a boat that HANDLES! Then you need some luck. A good start and stay out of trouble in the heat. I made up that heat with boats of different characteristics.

Mike Hooper has more power, likely in the 100 hp range. He would weigh close to the 725 lbs. The real plus is racing experience. Mike does a lot of racing. So that is why I picked him to win.

Cory and Zonka would battle for second because Zonka would be super fast, but almost impossible to stay in the gas without blowing over. Cory's got good straightaway speed and excellent in the corners. Zonka's 56'r would really get out of the corner, but have difficulty in the rough water.

Jake's boat will be set up perfect. Dave will make sure of that. He just wouldn't have the speed to catch the first three boats.

Why are Jim and Rick a distant 5th and 6th? DIRTY WATER! After the 2 lap there is little chance of moving up. You just get the best finish you can and hope to do better the next day.

Again, it is all about educating the new racers. The fastest boat doesn't always win. The clock start and water conditions play a key role.
Case in point...2 years ago....We measured the boats speed in races..Ryley was the quickest on the oval at 69 mph....The slowest was Dave Whittington at 60.4 mph....Dave finished first in 3 heats that year and was the high point winner at Dunnville for the Sunday.....THAT IS 8 MPH DIFFERENCE!

Agreed 100% w Dok, he summed it up. If someone meets weight, compression(the easy tests) and does not have obvious mods(shaved flywheel), and is Dominant, despite all other variables( timing a good start, set-up, conditions, other), then let them be dominant, not to be penalized. NO way Jim to be penalized(propped down) bc he is dominant for outdriving and a better set-up. That's why the word 'Dominant' was voted to be removed from the Fair Competition Rule.

But returning to the original concern voiced by Jim/Hdog,...Speed vs Safety. If Hoops races and hits 74, and the record is 72, we know he's modded it up, and the SPEED is a safey concern, not whether he's modded. The point is, someone legal on weight, cu in, compression, will not go over the max threshold we set(eg: 72 for argument).
It is not in TORC/T best interest to have someone ripping it at 74+ bc they're underweight or overpowered, even if they declare up front they're not legal and not running for points. The incidence of an accident is not linear with speed, its exponential. And that's the fear expressed multiple times/years in the past including this thread.
So Don, "What do you do?"... put a GPS into the suspected top 3 boats. If Hooper hits 75, vs 72max allowable, he should be propped down the next heat/race on a TORC course, because TORC owns the course and is responsible for drivers safety. If Hoops wants to go 75++++++, he can do it on 6ML, I'll be the first to ask for a ride. In fact we're already using speed as a T750/850 distinction criteria in which class to run.
So why not use max speed as criteria for safety?
This is where legal spec or not, maximum speed is a non-prejudicial measurement. It nullifies whether an engine has been modded, which suits us because we do not have an appetite for teardown, or inspection beyond the simple criteria we have established and accepted. And we're all good with the criteria, as backyard racers, just racing for bragging rights. But it leaves more to be desired,...saftey related to speed.

I'll make another suggestion. Any racer with a new 2012 56ci T850 engine/rig, that either did or did not race T750 last year, should race first 2 heats at their first race venue on the Saturday in T750. Then move to T850 Sunday.
APBA/CBF dictate rules for new racers, which must to be obseved and respected for new new racers. It is at the discretion of the referee that a racer has the privilege to race, not right.
I'm ok with that, because in the end we're backyard racers which we all love.

One more suggestion: for anyone wanting to find out how fast their boat will go straight, put on your best wheel and do the Drag course, the drag guys will accept T's. Imagine Cory against Geiger,...Zonkers against Dok.

I like both of these ideas Erik!

I can see that there could be some dominating this year based on the capability of a Critch with a strong 56ci and experienced driver. It seems there may be room for a third class? The T750's, the T850's in 60-65mph range and a class of T850pro, 70mph+ boats on their own? I dunno, just thinking out loud... but then again, maybe 70mph+ is too fast?? ...don't take me too serious, I'm just a guy who hasn't even hit the course yet!

See...you get a guy like LC that's been running in 850 with his 750...do you think he needs to run his 850 boat in 750?? He can drive the wheels off the delta and there's NO way he's not going to lap the 750 boats...I don't see the benefit. If you're concerned about the rookies just make sure they've got the X on their helmet and run at the back of the pack (shouldn't be an issue for the slOMC guys). The rest of us learned against the Whittingtons, the Gun, Jimmy Allen, etc...I think it's important to run with the experienced guys to see/learn proper lines through corners and strategy.

Another issue that just hit me: If we have enough boats show up to divide the heats we have to run a final!!! Run it the same as SO...with the top 3 or 4 boats transferring...

I'm down for drags!!! Zonka how do you spell freightrained???? I'll give you the answer: voodoo

I'm down also! Not scared of any yamahas or voodoos! I've always liked the idea of drag racing T's

Your power to weight would be awesome, vs the Parry Sound Porker.

What I would do and I am sure many would not like it.
I would go by the rule book...period!
If you are not going to follow the rules then why have them.

All boats must pass the mninum 1-2 test requirement to even be allowed to race.
[1] it must be legal weight and legal compression.
[2] the motor must visually look like it conforms to the rules.

So if your under weight ...your out.
If you have over 160 compression...your out
If you have the wrong....flywheel your out
If you have the wrong carbs....your out
If you have the wrong gearcase your out.
The motor must look correct
Every racer should respect this as the minimum requirement. You must draw the line somewhere.

Why would there be an issue going to the rule book?? I don't think you would have seen any of the front runners DQ'd last season for anything mentioned above....besides (as I've said before) we've let motors in the class that are MUCH larger than the UIM spec AND we don't have specs on said motors so how do you go to the rule book for a 56? If we want to clamp down on potential rule infractions then we'd better start by going to an 850cc engine for which we have the UIM spec sheets .

In our "dream" scenario:
We have a winner who has never shown up to race, with a supposed 100hp engine that has less than 160lbs of compression(???).
Zonka is running a borrowed 56 powerhead (which is 100% legal...so...no issue) and has been to one race
Mike Corey running a yamaha, which after seeing the CES spec sheet I'm sure would fit in under the UIM rules...also one race in a T
Jim...with a well sorted package AND a lifetime of experience
Me...with what must be something wrong or broken on my Yamaha....on season 3

If this all happens (more than once) you won't have to worry about the rule book...'cause I think this is one of the five signs of apocalypse

Wow...the first 2 heats of T750 could be the race to watch, based on those criteria, we could have on the pole Mike Hooper, Jim Whittington, Top Gun, Walk with Max and my slow boat, all these guys have new 56 rigs for 2012 and have never raced T750 or T850 with a 56. Can I go race the T850 heats I think I have a better chance to finish top 3 over there. Lap traffic with the 750's could be come an issue so I might be able to sneak in for third




Agreed! so lets not get too carried away here.

The 56er shouldn't be made out to be some kind of uncontrollable beast, that's just gonna light the course on fire everytime one gets on the water. Lots of 56'rs were run last year and I don't remember getting lapped last year and I was definitely out gunned. I agree with Jim that a properly set up 56'r will go like stink, but like jim pointed out no one has done that yet and frankly by the attendance at some of the races I don't think people are willing to put in the time to do it or spend the money working props to get it done.

I agree first and foremost that safety for the racers is a top priority here, everyone has a responsibilitiy to drive within their own limits, Erik you said it best about the conditions at Erinsville and the hydro's, everyone has there hand on the throttle and it's up to them to drive based on the conditions. I'm not gonna risk my self nor the safety of my good friends to finish a head of anyone else, cause at the end of the day I'm just out to have some fun.

If speed is such a concern why are we letting some of the hydro's run so fast. Those FEH guys run pretty quick. For guys that have never been to Waterford you have to come just to watch Hunter Grimes run his hydro, this guy is so fast it unbelieveable...it's AWESOME!